10 Mayıs 2014 Cumartesi

" HUMAN-in art " - or " HUMAN; not " , in art ..

"  HUMAN-in art  "  - or  " HUMAN; not " , in art ..



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Murat Oktay Danış
.. b e e eeeeeee en " O 'D A " şirketinde MODDANiS
Politicians has leaked, in2 art; and stolen the " STATE- o f t h e -a r t " ..
..so they can MAKE; a r t, on ; " h u m a n -material " ..
..but w e needed, that filter-of-pure-art-materrial-matter, when other-people-should touch-US .

" modernism w a s; underestimated " , that w a s, the, braking, point ..

..so only chance ; , for " human-can think a r t " , , i s in concrete, " contemporary-thing-acts "..though. (that is " contemporary-act-of-contemporary-artists " ..l e f t , to , t h e art; i n these, days; )
..although; , (contemporary + modernism is against ; " t h e Figuration " o f all, kinds)
..Policies, and Politicians, produce, " F i G U R E s " ; only ..


..and " Figuration-in-art " -has OPENED; t h e DOOR; 2 that, " STATE-Figurations " ,o n every-THiNG " ..
... w e have figures, every-where, around u s, that surround, u s ..
( I w a s , a FiGURE-Furniture-braker, , with my, hands and feet, in my fathers, house, though)

..c a n w e; say; the chance, o f, ; " MODERNity- e r a " is ,totally-missed ..-or lost-
( with relativity, randomness, modernities, romanticism , mystery, spirit, e.c.t. )
..and these w e r e , all, " a l t e r n a t i v e, ways, t o ; that; " F i G U R A T iş O N " -JOB..
..and nature, flows, in a mystical w a y .. t h o u g h..
..(they convinced us, as, nature was, flowing into " F i g u r e s " ; though ..)

..no edits ..





























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                     Harry ; ı do not think, U are " figuring ", i n U'r art ..
                     ..in U'r paintings, " every-thing ", e s c a p e s , from; the; " F i g u r e -m o u l d  s " ,
                      where U(U'r soul) stand , " 4 a  w h i l e " ..

..and U also suffer from; ( C I A; ) " figurings ", i n art- F i e l d ..                     ____________________________________________________________________

L o r e n, SO; U a r e, a " digital-print-master .. " that changes, every-thing.
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Murat Oktay Danış
.. b e e eeeeeee en " O 'D A " şirketinde MODDANiS
..if I write,short; I may be miss-understood..(because English is second Language to me ,and, I did not l i v e, in an English-talking-society-either..)
..s o, Harry, what I meant i s, " why are U taking place; n e a r the F i g u r e ;MAKERs ,in art ..) ..U seem-Like, " U a r e ; a Figurative-art, Maker " ,, b u t I think,,
,, that U'r art, i s, " not figurative " ; i n many- m e a n s..
I wanted to say, ,that,only ..
..and I think, that is , " valuable ", and a chance ..

,,then I add, the post above :again..

" Harry ; ı do not think, U are " figuring ", i n U'r art ..
..in U'r paintings, " every-thing ", e s c a p e s , from; the; " F i g u r e -m o u l d s " ,
where U(U'r soul) stand , " 4 a w h i l e " ..

..and U also suffer from; ( C I A; ) " figurings ", i n art- F i e l d .. "

..that i s (I guess), , U a r e; against, t h e " F i g u r e-MAKERs " ..
( because, all politicians a r e ; " F i g u r e -Makers " ..)


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Titus has t h e, " right ", to act as h e, calculates..

( and his calculations, may include, any, tricks.. in them, ,a l s o ..)
( and that is  a TRAP; that, will catch, U from, U'r  foot, also..
as far as, U b e, fought, to these, traps, h e , will set, these, " iron-traps, "
for, U'r L E G s ..
L E G ; is t h e, most basic thing, if U a r e, 2 stand, on t h e " GROUND "  ..

( he has his  " o w n " ;  calculations, to stand here, and they are non of anyones-business ..)
( can anyone know, why he   " does-that, o r  this " 4 WHAT; ..  ,, ..)
/(especially in art f i e l d, U can not; d e f i n e; acts,   -of an artist- ,,
;   i n traditional and social-moral, bases ..  -&means- )  ..
..(  artist, makings, can not be  " caged " , into, some ,  " small-social-etics-b o x e s "  ; of some social-communities .. )..
..
..(and he does not ;   " o w e, any thing  "  2, , any of us ..
..only he knows, what he owes, to ;  " t h e WHOM " ..

( ,, even 2  " the s o m e " ;   ,who think they are ;t h e OWNERs o f the " right s "  2 give ,and ,open them, 2 the people; o f them,..only,  ,t h e n ..  )

..U do not need to;   (o r have 2) " a c t L i k e ",   "  Titus, a c t s " ..
( if U are, n o t;  genuine -makers, (owners) of these, a c t s .. -in  t h e fact -  )
...i n the e n d; every o n e, is;  " WHAT; h e SAYs,," 2 the OTHERs, most generally ..

Titus MAKEs; " economy "; when saying;  " L i a r "  ; 2 L o r e n..
.. t h e n; look, what " L o r e n " ; pukes, into,, T i t u s, t  h  e  n ..
..from his own, m o u t h ..
.. do not eat, " EVERY-THiNG " ..
... and then; U do not; n e e d , 2 " puke ", them, t h e n ..
T i t u s , is a selective- e a t e r, h e r e ..
.." h e does not e a t, every-Thing; that is survey,  h e r e..    "

I my-self,   ,do not; e a t ; " social-people " , a r o u n d,  h  e   r  e ..&there ..
..because I am a " deconstruction-reconstructer e r " ; ( a POST-M o d e rn i s t )
..and ; I , e  a   t ,  decunstructed-ALPHA  B E T h  s ,  m  o  s  t  l  y ..
..so I also, prepare m y,  " m e a l ", h  e  r e ,,
,, i n that;  "OPEN-Kitchen " , al s o,
as every-one-D O E S; this, too..

..back 2 the ISSUE :
..some o n e; can a c t ; (and has that right to a c t ; a s; any-thing) ..
..and noONE; c a n;  s a y ;  h i m, ;
" i f U a c t;  Like this;   ,SO;   ;U a  r e ,  " T  ' H     A    T-then  "    " ..
...
..it might b e , , reflection;( subconscious-rememberans) o f , someone h a s ; ,told..U ,once..  ;
..  if U are, going o u t,  2 stay under the sun;  " do not forget U'r    ,H   A   T; , t h e n " ..

..(artist can be  an, Atheist, also ..  -and most probable y. ; h e/she ,has 2    . b e.-


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re, Titus :

"   Harry, it is obvious you are loose at both ends...   " ..

... .. that i s an important;  t h i n g , " 2 b e; ABLE " ;  t o,  B  E;
 " LOOSE; i n BOTH-e n d s " ..
...  I am, " LOOSE-in -a n y- ENDs " ;  but I am AT; T H E;  BOTH; any- E  N   D     s ..
( that is if I am totally-LOOSE; then, I can reach a t,  " any-E N D s " ..
( noting HOLDs;  m  e  ;  when ; I begin to W A L KL;  2 an  E   N    D  ..
..and I am  f r  e  e ;  2  WALK; any ENDs; " i n T i me " ;
and t h e n;  s t i l l,  " have " ; that;  T  i  M   E ;
,, t  o  spend, ( USE ); i  n,  t h e s e;  "  any-END s " ..

.. S  O;  w h e n;  a    r  t ;  " E  N T E R s "  ;   i   n,    f  r o m;
"  t h e s e  LOOSE-E N D s " ,,
I  w i l l (&can)  b  e ;  w a i t i n g;  4  i t,  "  m e a n  -T i m e " ;
already,  h  a  v  e ;    , Located,  " the -END s " ..



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Loren, I think, u a r e, exaggerating .. ( and exaggerated, ,only ..) .. that's all..
..w e all, " exaggerate ", here, too.. ( w e all are drawing some lines ..) o n l y , h e r e ..

..problem w a s, " 2 own, the place "; from the owner..  .. (the thread )..we are all passing through, only ..no one has to o w n, something ..

..N i c e to meat U,  ; too.. ( n o w we know, much more,and better ,  -each other- .. ..)
U shouldn't take any-thing, personal ..

...Y e s there are, many "uncertain ", things happening h e r e, behind  t h e, " curtain s " , .. U tried, to " draw " , them, , and U did that, i n many-means ..( some drawings o f U'r s w e r e ,  " brave-& n e w -l i n e s ..to define, some situation s.. .. they are added, to t h e, posts.. and will b e , there .. a l s o ..)
..  b  u  t ; w e go on, with these  " uncertain-stay-uncertain  " ..
... w  e   DO; n o t, " draw " , t h e m ..

..SOME; h a s 2 , t o, stay,    ;  " not put, i n   t  h e  ;L i n e s  " ..sometimes ..

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Problem,;    , i n art History,
.....     has begun, with t h e,   w a y;   " H i s t o r y ", i t self .. w o r k s ..
( but art is not  " a THiNG " ; related, t o t h e,History ..-&the way history works-)

..art i n fact, i  s ; not;  H U M A N .. though ..
(although ,history is in human)
(  "  the THiNG; o f a r t  " ; flows in human, also,
..   S O;  w e try to,  " get it "  from that,FLOW o f L i f e -of- the Human, ..
/ a s  w e  a r e ; i  n the L  i  f e ; and close, to that  " art Thing ", i  n   it ..

PROBLEM;  i s .. " the THiNG-of-a r t " ; has nothing to D O; with , " beauty ", , EiTHER..
..w e  can " STUDy ", " B e a u t y ", while we are trying to MAKE; a r t
,,  b  u  t   that DOES; n o t, say, " a r t is-related ", with,  "b  e a u t y " ..
(may b e, beauty, includes; a r t , but, WE can not , TAKE-that-ART-T h i n g;
o  u  t  of  B e a u t y,  either .. )

i  n fact, when avant-garde  begun; " dada ", movement, wanted, " NO ART " ;  (as a THiNG) ..
 " ACTUAL-art " means, THiNGs-that are in our lives, should, involve art,
....    SO; there should b e; noting named,  a s ;  "  A R T -thing  "..
( that means empty the museums, and galleries; and all art-named things;
...out of our L i v e s..)
(all art-things ;  ;  has to b e; i n  s  t a  l  l e d ;  i n t o;  the  "  THiNGs-of L i f e  "
..and these real and actual things; are with us, ;  and they are not;
sacret, holly o r, d e v i n e ....
..that means i f they are not  " TRUELy-genuine " in functioning;
..   , then,, they have to b e ,heightened,  " 2 the holly  " ; U S E ; ; instead ..)

( so installation of that " art-Thing ", into the daily-Life -Actual-things ;
,,(that would clean t h e  Things-in-our-Lives, though )..
i f art is, installed, into them; ,, e v e r y-THiNG; around u  s,
..  should, b  e ; i n their, b e s t -FORM s..
...& every " THiNG ", should b e parallel;
to these  f a c t s;  and ; " reality-&truth "..
.. t h e n ..

S  O; why, w e still, " hold on 2 that- art- t h i n g   " ; (to put it into t h e ; Human-body-&body-of the -beauty) ..

..  .....s   o, U can; study  " BEAUTy "..
(standing parallel-to-a r t-things-in many-shapes )
... b  u  t  , that is nothing to DO; w i t h  ,THAT ;  "  the -art-thing  " ..


..... U  can  study; " HUMANity " ; ( HUMAN-BODy-heightening.. )
(standing parallel-to- "t he a r t-things- "    -in many-shapes ; or in doings of the body ..)
..b  u  t , that also , shouldn't b e ; MiXED; w i t h , " the search-of a r t -thing " ..

..M.Duchamp; has said.. U shouldn't s a y;
  "  Human as a Thing; or Beauty-as a Thing;  "
.. a  r  t  ; has to  b  e ;    t   h  e   " thing " .. only..

... b  u  t; still t h e r e  is  a  " advanced  ; STATE  "; still t h e r e,    ;occur in our-Time (era)
.." contemporary-art ", has proved, that; " ART- T H i N G " ; has no relation with, both human, and beauty ..
... b  u  t  ; a s w e ; MAKE;(or D O )  ,  o u r, HUMAN-conditions; , m u l t i; and high,    -heighten-THEM-
...or as w e; can produce m o r e, " BEAUTY " ; (as we heighten our Body-and-soul-&spirit),,in the mediums of  "the-art" ,,
,, t h e n ;  W E; can  "  define;  a   r  t  " (but not the thing of art,this time)
.. f r o m  that;  S  i  D  E s ; ( human, and Beauty..)

...o n the other hand; if we are to " heighten ", our " H u m a n; conditions " ,and the " body of the BEAUTy " ; t h e n ; " ART-thing-has to- i n US;  "  ..
( like a heightening -framework   ;..or a skeleton ..

problem i s  w e ; DO; NOT NEED;  t h a t  " thing-of art " ( as a Figure ,and Figuring))
( as it is needed, i n, History o f a r t..)
..i n our; " Human-condition; and Beauty-body "; w o r k s ..

W HE N ; I work with, PAiNT; ,
I do not n e e d,2 act in " art-history-M E A N s " ..(and regulations..)
I have to focus, on my; " HUMAN-act s "; and o n the BODy-of-the-BEAUTy " , o n l y ..
.. w h e n I am in that;  POOL; o f the ; PAiNT .. ( to swim i n the paint ..)

P a i n t shall take (suck) ; m y humanity, or b e a u t y, in m  e;
,,  o  r   put; " a frame work ", provided, from; t h e -art- t  h  i  n g ..
.. b u t, still , n e v e r, try, to " produce " that art- t h i n g  "  ,,
/(w h e n;  WORKing-on-BEAUTY-BODy- and   ,HUMAN-BODy-aesthet i c s).

(..as I think, 2-my-reasons ..
..and,  no edits,  ; 2 the writing..)

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..above i s " my THiNKing " ; (as I am a THiNKing-THiNG ..) t h e r e ..
..(still there is a THiNG-in my thinking ..)

..2 shorten, i t ..
..it was wrong; (in art History), t o M a k e; an  " a r t -thing ", in the means o f " Body of the beauty-and by the means of t h e ; Human-  ...
( so art-history is to produce, human-doings  and the body of t h e beauty, o n l y, p u r e l y ..
..and MAKiNG; T h i n g s, of art; i s an other, s e c u la r; work
that has to be studied; i n " contemporary-art )

.. 1- " a r t -t h i n g    "    ;  -has to be; WORKED; secularly.. (a way from beauty, and human) ..
(and contemporary-art did that ..)
so no need, to look-for, beauty; and humanity, i n, contemporary art ) ..
( if U are, not;an  " addicted " ; to both; human-&beauty..
..and U can not u s e , U'r RATiO; a l o n e  ..
( a way, from human-body-and-t h e beauty..)

(in fact contemporary, focuses, o n the " actual-thing "  ; where art should install in the  " things of life  "; and, they also can b e, " r e a l-&true-t h i n g , t h e n ;
where art things, become-actual things, in our lives, (not;in Museums)
...  a   n  d ; a s a r t -things; are made; ;
" actual-things-only "; , w e shall; b e using and touching a r t; ( as a framework in L i f e ) ,,
....but; never NAME i t, a s a ;     ,,   "  ART-Thing "..
" divine "; or sacret or holly, a THiNG; and , " pray 2, them " ..

..  2  -  on the other hand; U can; put; U'r Human-body-acts; and the body-of-the-BEAUTy,
i n t o;  a   n   y ;  "  a   r  t -M e d i u m " ; and s e e; how, t h e y;  " occur " ; t h e r  e;
but that is not; " to produce ", an " art-thing ", though ..

p.s.
 w h a t; I do as an advanced-work, i s;  t h e; second (2)  " Human&beauty; o c c u r i n g  in; art-mediums ".. f i r s t ..
...  b  u  t  ; t h e n;  I " LOOK-4 ";  ,, the;  " a r t -T h i n g " that has been; a " framework  " to m y; acts; and doings, i n that; m e d i u m ..
( and make; t h e realization o f i t, in the computer, programs)
...that i s; I lookfor, t h e; " figuration  " of that  " art- t h i n g " ; that leaked, i n t o, medium..
.. b  u  t ; traditional-art;
  ...   tries, t o, " DRAW-THAT F i G U R E " ; into the M e d i u m.. f i r s t ..

( it is totally opposite ..
..I will make love 2 a woman; to find- o u t;  ; "  m y-body " ; in h e r ..
( HOW-Ihave OCCURED; i n h e r ..and if there is a "frame-work" of art, t h e r e, -4 a stand-..)
( where she has got it, from my love to her)

..but, traditional; will penetrate; h i s, body,( figure) , i n t o, her BODY.. (into the Medium)

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..are U an " art- t h i ng "; (contemporarily-MADE-ACTUAL.. ) T i t u s .. ?

( that means, U have to stand out, of that; Humanism, and beauty-&aesthetics, intentionally ..)
..b  u  t; on the other hand, , if an " art-thing " ; is made of Human; t h e n; has that natural-beauty-aesthetics,, also i n .. and a human, i n, also ..
..but has to act like a , ACTUAL-thing, i n l i f e ..

.. I wouldn't have any problems, with a " human-ACTUAL-thing-of a r t "..
..because, ı h a v e; excess, " humanity-and-beauty "; stored, i n my, actual-life,also..
..w h i l e, every-other has 2, provide, t h e m from, e v e r y,  " social-human ", o  r,
,, a r t put, i  n, Human and, b u i t y; -SHAPE ..

..as contemporary, ACTUALizing; things o f -Human;   ,cuts, that; " life-source "..
..to those, human and beauty-suckers ..
..they have to produce, t h e i r; OWN; " HUMANity "; and their, o w n, b e a u t y ..
though ..


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..artists with  ; " t w o " labels ..

 "  academic-artist s  "  :
.. "  academics are academics "  ..(nothing more) .. " an " academic "; artist tries to convert art, to t h e , Academic-state ..   ..and then will be prized, i f; , art-can b e ; " academic ".

 " commercial-artists "  :
..a commercial artist, i s, commercial ..he/she tries to make, a r t,  " commercial a t h i n g  " .. for the commerce ..and will b e awarded, with " money "; , -the prize that commerce offers )

..or contemporary-artists, Figurative -artists, oil-painting-artists, e.c.t.

....U  have to  b  e, "   a  " single ", a  r  t  i s  t  ... f i  r s t ..
(..in the,  first s t e p . )

.. "  t   o   , melt that   single " ,  ;  "  LABEL "  , a l s o ,
U have to m a k e,  " m u l t i -art s " ..
( U have to b e, m u l t i, persons ..)

...if U are a  "   multi discipliner-artist  "  ,, ( writer, music-maker-painter, dancer ..e.c.t.
(in a day..)
U  w i l l ,  b  e   ;   "  L  O  S  T; i n the translation "  .. (of arts )
...and that is " against ", all ,O N E;   " L A B E L s " , that will b e sticked, o n  U ..(as a person )

..what happens,  2  " t  h  e ,a r t " ;    i f U DO; these, MULTi-artings ..

,, i  t also, will b e ; " LOOSEN " , and , will  "   l o s e  " , e v e n,  " i t self " ..

..and   w  e   n e e d , that; STEP; ,
for the L i b e r a t i o n, of, a r t, itself ..

..then  w   h  e  n   a r t,  " finds ", i t s e l f;  ( in multi-art-DOings; multi d e e d  s .. );
...  t  h  a  t , "  THiNG  " ; H A P P E N E D ;  t h e r e
,,  c a n;   b e ;  " LABELED ",  a s ;   "  a   r  t  -thing  " ..  ,  t   h   e   n , -after-
... "   fuc K! a r t, f   uC  k; ARTist  " ( to loosen them) , t  h  e n ,  l  e  t  there, happens,
; "  s o m e -thing   " ,,  T   h e r e..

..and then ;    ;   wW E;  need that " art-history-definations ",
to " L A B E L "
,,o r define, that " some- t h i n g " ;   a   s , an  
  ; "  a      r    t -thing " ..   t h e n ;  -after-

..forget, price,(and money) forget awards ..
( do not think them, before, Doing, M a k e ing,-art ..)
..give all U'r remembrance and RATiO;    -and ; U'r all talents-  ;& U'r  M i n d,
..  i n t o , that ; " multi-art-DOings " ;
and,  " r e a c h that ";   - r e a l-    ; ; " a r t - t h i n g " ;  -target- ..

..if something is, actual, o r, L i v i n g,(a Thing),  U DO, not put it, i n t o; MUSEUMs; ..
( then Museums, become , d u n g e on s; and,  c e m e t r  i e s..

..o n the other hand, I L i k e, " T O T E M s " ..
...where, THiNGs b e c o m e;  " 100Xbigger than, normal ..
..and MUSEUMs; has to i n c l u d e, these TOTEMs; i   n ..  o   n    l   y ..
( I wish I was, an " indian ", to have, some , TOTEMs ..
..o u r cities, are b i g, and cities, have become TOTEMs, i n s t e  a d ..)

..and-these, "  arguments  " ; o  n;
   "      which i  s  ; " TOP-quality ", w o r k -of- a r t..  "
( a master piece)
(a select work for the academic personal ..and 4 academies..)

,, i  t  i  s  ;  EAİSY; to, find o u t ..  ( the B E S T ) ..
M  A  K  E;  i  t  ;R  E   A   L;  ,,   :MAKE-original;  100X bigger than the original ..
( to try- 2 MAKE; i  t,  REAL )

and s e e; i f  i t  ; becomes, " MAGiCAL " ; " MYSTERiO U S " ,  o r
D O E S ;  i   t,.  deminish, or  F a d e s,  a W A Y;
as i t has been ; m a g n i f i e d ..
.. " that, s i m p l e " , and ; that; e a  i s y, and; that;   ;
..  i s  the test  4  t h e, "   R E A L   "   ..

..these arguments ", what a  w a s t e, 2 these,  " ACADEMiC-personalities .. " ..
( to put brains, i n academies, can b e defined, a s  a " WASTE-B O X  e s " ..
...should  w e feel, mercy,  " 4 THOSE "  ..
( a JAWfish in an aquarium; a s Damienn Hirst, t h e ordinary-arter; h a s defined..)
( they still MAKE; T H E M s e l v e s, ;  " TOTEMs  " ,though, and alSO ..

so the " TOTEMization  " ,  o f the C i t y- (by-furnitures), ; G O;  o n, , ;taking-stage )

p.s. this i s; the writing,  " WHEN; I  THiNK" , "  the Issue  "..)
( this writing is a  " THiNK i n g  ",,only )


_______________________________________________________________________

..SO; " the G i v i n g ; E N D " ; /(taht's m e )..speaking ..

.. re Toni :

"  Howard and Megan,
your contributions elevate this discussion, and I thank you for that. " ..

..  .. " your contributions elevate this discussion " ...
.."  and I thank you for that ".
( " still an elite-comment, ; an attempt ; 2 " o w n " ; the discussion ..)

... I think, ELiTE-has to " f .u -c  K - "  themselves;
 ( and actually they are DO i n g that ; i n all m e a n s )
,,.. not  U S ..
( who a r e ; somewhere -&someone-o n -t  h  e  -  F  i   E  L   D  =)

...and they try to collect " those ", W H O; think they can; STiLL; -b e;
" e l i t e s  ";
..b   y; " only-touching " 2 t h e ;
....  shining- " E L i T E -clothes  " ..

p.s. I L i k e  H a r  r y .. i  f  U are , at that; " reciving e n d " ;of t h e; "  E L İ T E-community  ", ... (   a  t ; L e a s t , , the  " trash-digger  " ; o f ; T H E M ..)
U find many things in the  " trash ", o f the E l i T e s ..
( he likws to w  o  r  k  ;  though ..
and that is NAMED;  ,  as a disease; i n  "  E l i t e-class  "  .. )

..that may, M A K E; him, " seem-like "  L o s t in the  " t r a sh " ;
but h e ; still D O E S; not " c a r e "  ; 4 that..
..because h e, doesn't need to " s e e m L i k e  " ; an " elite " .. -D ..

( maybe I find,  "  my-self " , i n his, behaviors ..
..although I was, born into a elite family,
.. I refused  2 become , an  E l i t e ,
and b e g u n 2 work, my talents, in my ,childhood ..

.,. 1966 -I was 12-  ;there were, USA; citizens(USA soldiers) Living in our Blocks,
 and , I saw many "  new things "
- first in my Life- i n  their, " trash " ..
..and I w a s; to tear POSTAGE-stamps, on the envelopes,
to put them i n; my-hand made-STAMP-BOOK ,,
and use baby-meal-cars, for my ,   "  pet-fish-mother- ready to give birth "  .. ..
..I knew English;   ,so w e ; all could, play- t o g e t h e r ..( Turk s- and USA-children )
..I  w a s , on  " USA t e a m "  ; ,, to make comunication, healthy ..)
(..so USA-boys could play, Turkish-games ..)

i f U investigate, " e l i t e s " ; from , their, " t r a s h ".,,
.. U  c  a  n,  l e a r n;  " W H O ", t h e y;  a  r  e ..
.. I could U S E , many t h i n g s, in their trash, , forever ..
S  O; t h e y , are , " p i p e s " ; to pass -over some thing s..
..and I can say; they a r e, , " spendthrift  " ..
..they too easily can; spend, a w a y ,; even their, friend s. also .

..for some, " psychology  " i s a  " m i n e-work " ..
,although to some, " an instrument ", 2 , " NAME ", p  e  o  p  l  e ,
d u e , 2 the, " brain-insides " .



_________________________________________________________________________


Murat Oktay Danış
.. b e e eeeeeee en " O 'D A " şirketinde MODDANiS
..SO; " the G i v i n g ; E N D " ; /(taht's m e )..speaking ..

.. re Toni :

" Howard and Megan,
your contributions elevate this discussion, and I thank you for that. " ..

.. .. " your contributions elevate this discussion " ...
.." and I thank you for that ".
( " still an elite-comment, ; an attempt ; 2 " o w n " ; the discussion ..)

... I think, ELiTE-has to " f .u -c K - " themselves;
( and actually they are DO i n g that ; i n all m e a n s )
,,.. not U S ..
( who a r e ; somewhere -&someone-o n -t h e - F i E L D =)

...and they try to collect " those ", W H O; think they can; STiLL; -b e;
" e l i t e s ";
..b y; " only-touching " 2 t h e ;
.... shining- " E L i T E -clothes " ..

p.s. I L i k e H a r r y .. i f U are , at that; " reciving e n d " ;of t h e; " E L İ T E-community ", ... ( a t ; L e a s t , , the " trash-digger " ; o f ; T H E M ..)
U find many things in the " trash ", o f the E l i T e s ..
( he likes to w o r k ; though ..
and that is NAMED; , as a disease; i n " E l i t e-class " .. )

..that may, M A K E; him, " seem-like " L o s t in the " t r a sh " ;
but h e ; still D O E S; not " c a r e " ; 4 that..
..because h e, doesn't need to " s e e m L i k e " ; an " elite " .. -D ..

( maybe I find, " my-self " , i n his, behaviors ..
..although I was, born into a elite family,
.. I refused 2 become , an E l i t e ,
and b e g u n 2 work, my talents, in my ,childhood ..

.,. 1966 -I was 12- ;there were, USA; citizens(USA soldiers) Living in our Blocks,
and , I saw many " new things "
* first in my Life- i n their, " trash " ..

..and I w a s; to tear POSTAGE-stamps, on the envelopes,
to put them i n; my-hand made-STAMP-BOOK ,,
and use baby-meal-jars, for my , " pet-fish-mother- ready to give birth " .. ..
..I knew English; ,so w e ; all could, play- t o g e t h e r ..( Turk s- and USA-children )
..I w a s , on " USA t e a m " ; ,, to make comunication, healthy ..)
(..so USA-boys could play, Turkish-games ..)

i f U investigate, " e l i t e s " ; from , their, " t r a s h ".,,
.. U c a n, l e a r n; " W H O ", t h e y; a r e ..
.. I could U S E , many t h i n g s, in their trash, , forever ..
S O; t h e y , are , " p i p e s " ; to pass -over some thing s..
..and I can say; they a r e, , " spendthrift " ..
..they too easily can; spend, a w a y ,; even their, friend s. also .

..for (4) some, " psychology " i s a " m i n e-work " ..
,although to some, " an instrument ", 2 , " NAME ", p e o p l e ,
d u e , 2 the, " brain-insides " .

::_____________________________________________________________________________



Titus, it is important; i f someone i s, lost in the " TRASH-of-the-Elite " ..
..that i s ; he is in the ;  "  T O T A L-trash "  ..
( not divided ,, )
..i n fact; Harry-is, not lost i n, the conversation;  o r, i n; conversion .. ( I think )
..and I think U are, n o t , also..
.. "  w e need  " ;   " stable s " , .. ( & mature s ) ..2 b e ; " STABLE ", ,also ..


____________________________________________________________________________


Toni, so U could not  " hold U'rself  ", "  2,strike back" , 2 Harry..
..and U had that  " excess-confidence " ;  " 2 DO,so " . t  h  e  n  ..

..is this a " confession ", or a " declaration ", to the OT H E R .. -D

( I think, I acted, L i k e, T i t u s, DOEs. ..was that necessary..    -I am in doubt- ..)

________________________________________________________________________

re:Toni,
" You know nothing about my life and I wish to know nothing about yours, so unless you have comments that are relevant to this discussion, just shut up and leave me alone. "

.. an expression " might have been s a i d " ;  "  w h o , L i v e,  NEAR;  U " .
..that is, not an " order ", that U can; g i v e (declare); , to a forum-post-writer ..-D
..o  f  course w e do not know; anything about " t h e other ",
especially-in -these " multi-f a c e " ; F o r u m s ..
( I G u e s s ) ..


_______________________________________________________________________


Titus I am with that; " U'r c r i t i c i z e ings " , o n, H a r r y ..
... .. that helps to produce a " MORE- -mature-character " ..I think ..
( " STABiLity; o f H a r r y " ; should increase; , though ), (I guess) ..
..a  s   w e ; all, n e e d that; " STABLE- S T A T E s ..  "   ..
"  D O,  n o t,  " ,    w  e  ..
( with the  "  perfect-stablization-states  "  ;  of U.State sA. ; also,   -w e  all;  ..  HOPE- ..)


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 " Murat  " is a Turkish n a m e, -D..

..b u t ; I gave the name " CODE " ; (İLKE, in Turkish) 2 my second son.
/ and it also, means, " 2 the first ONE " ..

..there is an other, ;  " Marat ", the revolutionist -writer; in French-Revolution ..though ..
..but I am beyond,  that revolution-crew ..as I am a single-individual-only- b -D.

..by the way,my father was, an  " excellent-teacher  " , & naturally, " t e a c h i n g ", is my, ,
second Job-but;  (hobby) , voluntarily-&with-NO-PAY meant..

___________________________________________________________________________



https://www.linkedin.com/groupItem?view=&gid=119532&type=member&item=5798493865379901440&commentID=-1&trk=groups_item_detail-b-jump_last#lastComment




Murat Oktay Danış
.. b e e eeeeeee en " O 'D A " şirketinde MODDANiS
..if U go, into " realms ",with U'r body-and soul, then ;
.." a r t " , is WHAT; H A P P E N s; o n the way back, to the EARTH ..

( if U climb up the cliff to the EARTH; by U'r DO i n g s .. and " holding on to these a r t mediums " ..)

..art is not, ; " to turn-over U'r body and soul " , and mix them, in many ways,
while U still a r e, in the World; , and standing ..
..(never have gone, to the " r e a l m s " .. )


_____________________________________________________________________


.. I have a b i g,(2 meters high) a " M i r r o r ", in my studio .. and I took some photos, o f my Body, NAKED; and alone, i n my  " human-nakedness "  .. MY B o d y , is super-EROTiC , I found o u t. and maybe I should, have to express (and publish) m y, Erotic body, I thought.
.. and I wondered if woman should like 2 f u ..ck, that,  " erotic-THiNG  "; to gain   "  all i n one ", " humanity-&aesthetically, " ,,instead of m y;  ,a r t , that I w a s painting, writing, dancing o r, making sounds ..
 " E R O T i C; B O D Y  " ,, -L ike they made sculptures, i n ancient-GREEK; period-..
,,includes many disciplines of sports,,(of athletes )..Like a r t also has 7 disciplines i n ..
S  O; i f U have a spotive body in many sports, then, they will b e; controlled, as they are transformed, i n,to a r t disciplines, and
,, that sportive and art making-body, can s e e m as i t is,  " e r o t i c "  ..
..o  r  ; i f  U; have a body in that " shape ", then;  "  U'r a r t  "  ; will b e  " e r o t i c " ; also,..
.Y  e s  art; has 2 b e " EROTiC " ,,and that " erotic-aesthetics " ; shall come directly from the  " deeds; o f  an  e r o t i c- B o d  y   "..

..S O; sex, sport, makers, will b e directly, " suitable " 2 that  a  r t ; MADE BY; a " erotic " body .. O n c e again ; like a super athlete; -making all athletic sports-
,,a r t i s t, has to WORK; i n 7 disciplines o f ART; s  o , that ; " total-eroticism " will b e weared, 2 that a r t , o f that ; artist ..

L i k e art is a  " total-THiNG ";(in 7 disciplines) " eroticism i s TOTAL a THiNg " also,(in a BODYof Human) , and a ,  multi disciplinear-s y s t e m .. -erotic i s -
...i f U are making sports, U are 2 ,be an multi-athlete first ..
t h e n; when U make sport; ; there will b e produced; " eroticism-and aesthetics ", for U'r soul,  and with U'r ,   ;humanity,also .
..y  e  s , art has to be " humanistic " ; and has to b e parallel 2 these sport-makers; and sex-makers, also , with eroticism .
..a r t + sports + sex ,,..if U do one, U can b e entering and walking in, both, 3 ..
..the base, has to b e ; " One unic-base ", and, that is human, " acting in discipliner-actions " ..
.. S  O; eroticism i s a L a n g u a g e ; taking-source from, h u m a n- Object ..
..and a suitable base, 4 art, a l s o ..
( MAKE; sport-actions -activities- and then come and
read all that has acted, " as art ",   ,i n,  a r t -WORK ..
-D.
..no edits made on that writing ..

____________________________________________________________________________


Murat Oktay Danış
.. b e e eeeeeee en " O 'D A " şirketinde MODDANiS
.. I have a b i g,(2 meters high) a " M i r r o r ", in my studio .. and I took some photos, o f my Body, NAKED; and alone, i n my " human-nakedness " .. MY B o d y , is super-EROTiC , I found o u t. and maybe I should, have to express (and publish) m y, Erotic body, I thought.
.. and I wondered if woman should like 2 f u ..ck, that, " erotic-THiNG "; to gain " all i n one ", " humanity-&aesthetically, " ,,instead of m y; ,a r t , that I w a s painting, writing, dancing o r, making sounds ..
" E R O T i C; B O D Y " ,, -L ike they made sculptures, i n ancient-GREEK; period-..
,,includes many disciplines of sports,,(of athletes )..Like a r t also has 7 disciplines i n ..
S O; i f U have a sportive body (as an artist) -in many sports-, then, they will b e; controlled, as they are transformed, i n,to a r t disciplines, and
,, that sportive and art making-body, can s e e m as i t is, " e r o t i c " ..
..o r ; i f U; have a body in that " shape ", then; " U'r a r t " ; will b e " e r o t i c " ; also,..
.Y e s art; has 2 b e " EROTiC " ,,and that " erotic-aesthetics " ; shall come directly from the " deeds; o f an e r o t i c- B o d y "..

..S O; sex, sport, makers, will b e directly, " suitable " 2 that a r t ; MADE BY; an " erotic " body .. O n c e again ; like a super athlete; -making all athletic sports-
,,a r t i s t, has to WORK; i n 7 disciplines o f ART; s o , that ; " total-eroticism " will b e weared, 2 that a r t , o f that ; artist ..

L i k e art is a " total-THiNG ";(in 7 disciplines) " eroticism i s TOTAL a THiNg " also,(in a BODYof Human) , and a , multi disciplinear-s y s t e m .. -erotic i s -
...i f U are making sports, U are 2 ,be an multi-athlete first ..
t h e n; when U make sport; ; there will b e produced; " eroticism-and aesthetics ", for U'r soul, and with U'r , ;humanity,also .
..y e s , art has to be " humanistic " ; and has to b e parallel 2 these sport-makers; and sex-makers, also , with eroticism .
..a r t + sports + sex ,,..if U do one, U can b e entering and walking in, both, 3 ..
..the base, has to b e ; " One unic-base ", and, that is human, " acting in discipliner-actions " ..
.. S O; eroticism i s a L a n g u a g e ; taking-source from, h u m a n- Object ..
..and a suitable base, 4 art, a l s o ..
( MAKE; sport-actions -activities- and then come and
read all that has acted, " as art ", ,i n, a r t -WORK ..
(that is U do not need some consultants ,to tell U what art i s, & how, i t act s. )

..no edits made on that writing ..


________________________________________________________________________________


Murat Oktay Danış
.. b e e eeeeeee en " O 'D A " şirketinde MODDANiS
...that is a " quadrophonically " (4 sided) an " eroticism " , example ;
i n " sound " ,and vision .. b o t h ..
.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWI2bTckbgc



_____________________________________________________________________________

Humanity can  b e ; a " Total L i e " .. (the nature that we have)

( made of " lies " ; that genes,are lies only..)
..and we can gather some " facts "; from art, where w e ; l a y , our " human-bodies " (so bodies as lies), ..

..i f we are dealing with, struggles i n making-  " b i g- structures " ;  w i t h True things or " the facts " w e have found out, t h e n ; w e have to " MAKE-UP " some " structures " made of , L i e s ..(as our human bodies may be L i e s , ONLY ..also)

..on the other hand ..when I was young, I was " Making only  " WRONGs " ..( but not a single -true a thing ) ,,my mind was made of, " unwise " ..only ..
(everybody should say everything I do, o r did w a s wrong,, )

..i  f U can MAKE;   " b i g -enough, STRUCTURES  " ; without,  "  r e s i s t a n c e  "  ,,
then U have to MAKE; them, from " l i e s " ..(with no (any) facts i n, them;
(so U can not b e , caught) ..(to be disturbed ..)

..Then U are sure that it is a " TOTAL-Thing ", made o f lies;
then U have to " r e v e r s e " , all o f it, to  G  E  T  ;  a
.,,b  i  g  " TRUE-a-THiNG "  ..   t h  e n ..
I GUESS..

p.s.  Humanity can b e " a TOTAL-L i e " .. but if w e can USE; that
 " TOTAL-Lie-thing " (HUMAN-totally with all it's multi deeds )
 , t h e n ,,
w  e  can  r e a c h that;
.. " TOTAL-f a c t   " -o f ; -that-       ; "  art-Thing  " ..


______________________________________________________________________

Murat Oktay Danış
.. b e e eeeeeee en " O 'D A " şirketinde MODDANiS
Humanity can b e ; a " Total L i e " .. (the nature that we have)

( made of " lies " ; that is genes,are lies only..)
..and we can gather some " facts "; from art, where w e ; l a y , our " human-bodies " (so bodies as lies, has to be put in art materials &mediums .. ), ..

..i f we are dealing with, struggles i n making- " b i g- structures " ; w i t h True things or " the facts " w e have found out, t h e n ; w e have to " MAKE-UP " some " structures " made of , L i e s ..(as our human bodies may be L i e s , ONLY ..also)

..on the other hand ..when I was young, I was " Making only " WRONGs " ..( but not a single -true a thing ) ,,my mind was made of, " unwise " ..only ..
(everybody should say everything I do, o r did w a s wrong,, )

..i f U can MAKE; " b i g -enough, STRUCTURES " ; without, " r e s i s t a n c e " ,,
then U have to MAKE; them, from " l i e s " ..(with no (any) facts i n, them;
(so U can not b e , caught) ..(to be disturbed ..)

..Then U are sure that it is a " TOTAL-Thing ", made o f lies;
then U have to " r e v e r s e " , all o f it, to G E T ; a
.,,b i g " TRUE-a-THiNG " .. t h e n ..
I GUESS..

p.s. Humanity can b e " a TOTAL-L i e " .. but if w e can USE; that
" TOTAL-Lie-thing " (HUMAN-totally with all it's multi deeds )
, t h e n ,,
w e can r e a c h that;
.. " TOTAL-f a c t " -o f ; -that- ; " art-Thing " ..

..or i n art mediums o u r human nature can b e converted, i n 2 ,some " facts " , of t h e , art' s.




___________________________________________________________________

I came to that size (2 meterX 1.4 meter ) Canvas ; when painting ..
(that is I prefer to work on -that size- canvases .. when painting)
W h e r e; I can , b e included i  n, (the canvas) ; with m y w h o l e - body ..

..whole body-is   ;-whole-human body ..
..i  f  U work with U'r whole body .. (that is for example, if U play a basketball-match, then U will act and know; all your-body of human; and , i n it's genuine human-symetry ..)

..otherwise, U have to u s e; the imaginary-human-body, that is in U'r Mind ..
( I should say, BODY-of-Hun-man, has a " memory ", as our heart-has-also, other than brain..)
(shall w e say; o u r brain; goes down to our human bodies, as; w e W O R K; with all our BODY .. )


______________________________________________________________________________


 re Elwood; : " Murat, Give me good old honest plain talk instead of gibberish. " ..

..." a good old honest " ; : I am a "  good old honest a worker  " , Elwood ..( for 40 years in a r t..also .)
..as U think U are 2.(too) ..

.2 talk  " in the, P L A i N 's of  ,our social-personalities.. :
..( b u t I have doubts) , , U may not be as " pure " worker as I am ;  ; -and I w a s, i n years-
U may not b e; " honest "(as much I am) , 2 U'r self, if U played on "  other's; stage " .. (&plain)..
( U said, U sold U'r works i n art ,galleries  .. )
under the, regulations of some, others ..DO not tell me, they are more important than; the
,, " genuine disciplines o f , the art s "  ..(  there are at least 7 arts, -and these are basic ,major, disciplines, ,at least-  .. - "not to be making speculations",  -or depend on- , as gallery owners , generally d o e s- )  , this is their job to speculate art, instead of " artists has 2 make art ", in more than  "one art discipline " ..)

..i  f  someone says, he/she is an artist, then I have to ask 4 , some other work-examples, i n a n other, medium of art .. l e t U'r art DO i n g s; prove themselves, i n an other, M e d i u m of art ..instead, , some consultants rush in, and " speculations " on art , has to enlarge, the f i e l d .. yes, art field has 2 b e enlarged; but, still i n art mediums, and if one-person(artist) is , working on all, medium s.& simultaneously ..
..there are schools, 2 teach; how 2 MAKE-ART; , in only one discipline, o f , art ..
.. r e s t; (the other 6 art disciplines) has to  b e; filled i n,  " with, speculations " ..
..that is the  "  modern-system "  , to produce and educate; ,a r t ..

..U can not also, add these  " one-field- art-works "  of  " the other-artists " , -from other disciplines- ..to maintain 2 that;  " t h e  W H O L E -art- T H i N G " ..( on the other, hand ) ..
..( so art can not be; U N i F i E D,   "  i n any means  " ;
and art-history is an   " architects-in planing-of art-F i e l d "-J O B ..
..and ;they also have  to claim that art, i s  an , "  U N i f i e d-a-study.. " i n fact ..
..so if in " f a c t "; we need those, " philosophers, too " i n the field of art.. ..)

..and so ,ON; ,art, becomes, " a totally " infinite , hopeless ; ( can not be combined) a, f i e l d .
( not in content or in F o r m ..then; roll i t, i n Cinema-industry,,only, for the day-being ..)

.. b  u  t , " ON the other HAND " ;
 ,art is a such a f i e l d ;  ;
" also,  ,  every-THiNG; U DO  " ;  i n  art " ,
...  can fit-i n, -and prove- , itself ..(in  the Doings of t h e  m u l t i-art-thing s) ..
..no need to these , ; " speculation talks " ..

WHAT; I am saying is, WE NEED; some  " ALCHEMY-W O R K " -in-art-instead o f ; " that M o d e r n-century; ,  "  CHEMiSTRY-work "..
..art is suitable to " alchemy " ;  , (art thing can b e converted; into  "  an other THiNG " ; in art,    ......-if U float it , i n; m u l t i-art-mediums-..   ,, as U can make t h e , art,   ;  " i n all m e d i u ms..& all by U'r s e l f  " .. )

..o  f  course U, Elwood, d i d not have that, " total time " , 2 be in that alchemy,
(could U Unify anyThing-i n -in U'r Mind-  ,in this art-mass-marketing-system; ..)
as " speculations ", o f the , gallery-owners-wispers; w e r e, in U'r EARs..also,, ..- D.


I  HAVE A " PLAiN-TALK " (2 myself) and a  " art-stage "  of my own, and I am  "honest " to   " t h e-a r t " , also ..(as I work on 4 disciplines of art ,also)..U have 2 be honest 2 U'r self ,first, t h e n;
U can b e honest,   for t h e art, ; ,too .. b  u t , 2 be " HONEST-in-art; U have to MAKE;  controls of  U'r " aft-doings ";  ,when they also should happen;   "  i n ,an other-discipline " ; -of t  h  e   ,art    s-

. " .art has 2 TALK; 2 itself  " .. ( art can b e a "  l u n a  tic " , too..in multi-mediums; )
(in some other,   , art discipline ) ..

..i  f someone is, TALKing, 4 art, then I will say;
"  l e t ; U'r art SPEAK; in  an other discipline-of-art  "  ..
..is there  any one, on that, road ..after,  "  Leonardo da V i nc i  " ..
( they say he was a music maker, also ..)
..so U are talking on which painter, can  " touch inside " .. h e r e ..
..i  f  there is difference between, artists, then let me see the difference i n
an other, m e d i a , of art ..
..so they can speculate, when they say, they can see t h e " touch ",in the painting ..
..and these are not concrete, t h i n g s, " has been made-concrete ", i n other, medium, specialties ..

(LET U'r ART; TALK the " gibberish-of-art-itself " ;   -while still in the medium s of t h e art- .. "

..i  f   I   TALK; " gibebrish ",, m y gibberish , h a s and OLD-HONEST; a " medium plane " and ; multi mades o f art-deeds; in art ; also , ;ALREADy ..
..and ELWOOD; I h o p e, U have enough-b r e t h, to WALK; o n my; " PLANE " ..
( my writings and " my -plane " ; i s , a very W i d e -O N E ..
.. German army has been desperate , i n LARGE; ,SOViET-endless &-high-Planes (Field s) ..
and also when General-winter came, , al was, impossible, to even , WALK ..

.. s  o ; I am also, " glad that someone has asked, m e ; " PLANE " ; T A L K ..
..because NO; O N E; has yet, s a y, that " plane-talk ", here, y e t.
.and I I am standing alone (as a FOOL) on my; H i l l; and  "  i n my, p l an e " .




" gibberish " ; :  , when I am i n " gibberish-mood " ; that means, I know that I will not be understood; at the beginning ..( 4 there is no similar-talking-plane, h e r e ), s o ; if I talk " gibberish ", maybe some " similar ", " SOME-sounds " ; o r letters, or SOME-words, will give an awake  " 2 some "   ..
.. b  u  t  they are happy; sleeping i n their; general-SPECULATiON;-G R A U N D s,that are m a d e; common ; ALREADy ..
..I am coming f r o m ,  T H E  F  i  e  l  d,   o f art " D O ing "; b u t,
some, L i k e , to take that , BASiC-ground, to, ,
what has made-art-EAiSY; i n some ways ..
.. b  u t, the basic thing in art, has 2 b e; " WALK with U'r HANDs; and FEET; " , o n l y ..
..they think they can; make it e a i s y, by; using, " all kind of speculations  " ..

..at least I am; writing; " W O R K i N G " , " WALKiNG " ; on my hands; here ..
/( b u t some  ; " ceramic- a r t ificial-b i r d s " ;  ;
..    will only, " L i k e " , to f l y, above ; U S ..
.. h e r e, also .


____________________________________________________________________________


..I save " my D O i n g s 2 that , plane " ;
; ,, to that " plane of canvas " .. I guess ..

..and U can find some projections also in my writings, too ..(writing is an other p l a n e ),, and when I act on a plane, i t has to be, made for art,only..not even 4 , myself, or for , " some-one " ..else ..
..translation of art to social talks are not more important than, " art-expression " , itself ..
..( that is all I can DO; for social platforms..I guess..)
.. b u t if U are , deep enough, U can find some clues;
what I may b e; telling ..i n my " gibberish " ..

.....there is a " gibberish ",; i n m e .. because " " a r t ", is always, in , m e ..(in action; if U are working in 4 disciplines of art..)

.. (art will conquer U; if U did what, I have been; doing.. ..)
and Modern times, o f f e r - U : " touch only one discipline o f, art ",,..
-if U are a musician,,j u s t touch that, piano, but never touch,
colors, o r, " the paint, although music has, these " tones "; -colors- i n it also.. -..
( U can not offer, m u l t i-mediums for, " colors- 2 art ..)

.. and (it's -art's- expressions are ) more important than, anyone ,or any-thing,, (me included) .I think ..

Don't U think, that, there i s a " plane ", in m y, D O in g s ..
( or in my sayings .. )

..or do U still need a " special plane " to talk..
..w h y , do U need that, " plain " ; and " open ", talk ..
..do U think, " telling every thing ; to everyone " -easy to understand- , i s the basic job of an, artist ..
.. I am after someone who will, understand from my " gibberish " ..
..something in the sound, , has to be familiar, to, some e a r s, first, ..i f not; let them,better hear them, as, " gibberish "..

..i f U can feel something in the sounds; (in my gibberish,) I am making, then, ask, specific questions, that will dig in that,
, gibberish ..I am after that , I guess.. .
I shouldn't educate anyone,,(in art field ) i t is not my; business ..

Elwood H., 24/05/14 6:20 tarihinde şunları yazdı:
--------------------
I prefer plain talk.


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Elwood, we have discussed, these all, (for a long,time) ..( why I write as SO)..in this thread ..
I wouldn't make, them, again..
..b u t, there is still ; that;   " such low life commoner looking for simple understandable " ;
in m e, also ..
..i f U also try to understand, , some " basic ", things i n " genuine ", art doings, it becomes, that complex, ..b  u t; if U can , w a l k, that, " hard field "; and  "hard time " ;
then, U can s e e; how " common "; person I am , also ..
..maybe more " common " , than, U,,
..as I become the " hard-worker ", for that; " true- understanding ", o f that ; art-genuine..

..when U write , a little; " and short ", I shall call U;  a s  a " common e l i t e " , then..
.. n  o  t  a  , hard-worker, who puts his hand " under the rock " ..
(that rock has to b e, pulled, UP; " , though .. -that is true understanding of ;genuine art- I guess..

..and w e have.. Titus.. I Like, him.. he tries, to " act ", cool, and finish his expressions, i n " short ".. ..in a few, words..
..as if it is easy-&understandable, when U talk; according to these some  common-c o d e s..
K a b a l a ; is a good point, T i t u s ..(if anyone can tell   -anyTHiNG- on that; and write here; more than; ; approving; U'r way of looking, the issue..)

____________________________________________________________________________


..why, Linkedin; is not sending m e,  ; e-mail, (as it was before) ..
..how, can I get them again, when someone posts ...
..(  because, that tread's web-site, does not " upload ", itself, in two hours ) ..

..do I need to " post ",  " ..  " , to see, n e w , posts..


___________________________________________________________________________


..Orna, visual art is going to these " complex-visions ", , and ,, " complex ", visioning ..b u t, " ; ,traditional-Visual-artists " , a r e, going, NO-W  h e r e..

... to import " visions " ; from the  "  lands of the soul;  ",  (or realms),
( as a Kabbalah-priest-should-make,also)
,,it  i s possible, i f U can, b e  "  a contemporary-artist  " , first, then, apply,all contemporary-disciplines,  into that, " Vision-transfering ", from, other Worlds, (or realms); a n d, make , them, vision s,,
f o r our, "  BARE-e y e s " on  ; E ART h.. .. then .. I guess..

p.s.
Elwood, I found a better short-cut for U'r problem..I guess..
.read the common writings, ..do not mass with   "  my D a n c e, with, Alphabet  "..and my " naked-dance " ,,with those, " other side-beings " ..   ..only..
.. " I write common " , when it can , be written, by "  common; d e m a n d er s  " ..
..or when; I am to touch ,m y " common-side " ; also ..



__________________________________________________________________________


Harry   ", pleased to meet, U   "  ( at last )..
..U could come out of U'r windows and, doors, and walls; around U ; ,to say how U see, m e ,2 .
( that is better, I guess..) .. so U put U'r glasses o n, and say what U see.. (say how I seem;  "  in U'r mind " .. ) .. ( that can change-shape, also ..no problem ..)

Elwood, the difference between  " a worker and an ,e l i t e  " ; i s;
..   if U can "  o v e r c o m e  " ;  , that; feeling of  " annoyance "; (it is a general-sytem-symtom )
(and do not project " annoyance " in U,  to somebody-*else, by saying  who is annoying .. )
.. t h e n , U can begin to  " WORK "; , infinitely .
( that annoyance can b e a boat, that will float U,in unknown-waters..then ..)

..( an advanced work, has to go  " beyond ; THiNGs  " .. I guess ..
..  that is U have to reach these;advanced ;  " other-side ",, and b e able,
to work ,there ..

(..when we are writing; we are standing on the " earth-side " of the alphabet..; but when I write; I have to ; pass-over;that  " ALPHABET, T h i n g  " ,, and reach 2 the " o t h e r -Side " , of these;  " Alphabet-letters-and signs-WALL " ..
..an intellectual, talks with  " common-codes  ";   -that are already-known..b y people- ..
..but arranges them, in a n e w , way, -dimension-, only ..
.. " mine "  is not aiming that, " intellectualism ".. it is to pass-over i n t o , that " absolute-space " beyond these mystical signs(letters) o f the ;  " TAMPLE-ALPHABET  " .. )
I guess..

..and  " art world "  of today, need these, " advanced ", WORKERs..
( that is my assumption ..)

( by the way, why I wrote that WORKER;(word) in capitals .. (or generally why I write as ,so...)

.. it is  " common-schizophrenia " ; I am dealing with ; -the most- ..(some say  " being commonly-social " ; is the source , 2 that schizophrenia ) ..so I have to MAKE; " statues " from that ; ALPHABET-instruments  ..to define that social-schizophrenia-pool ..
( U shouldn't say it is U'r schizophrenia, -D.because, I gave my 8 years to a Psychiatrist ; to clean my brain and body from that, disease, ( in every corner ) ..so I have to keep my brain and body, clean from any shape, of that, " social-schizophrenia . " ..
( can U imagine, I do not use common-transportation; like bus,or subway, not to be infected, by biological-viruses and bacteria ,..I walk all the way, instead, or use my, car .)

..( I never know; what will  " i n f e c t ; me " , ( does that make , m e, a paranoiac )
N O; that will make , m e, " an advanced-worker " ..o n L y ..

; ..and I am to b e; in " alarm "; i n any second, ,
,, not 2 be , infected ..-in any seconds-,  because, I am working (an advanced work ; in an advanced-area..) , " on the other side  " ,
.... and if I am to " define " someThing; t h e r e ,, I have to " c u t " ; that social-schizophrenia-meltings , that shall occur around, m e ; , o n  E a r t h, with, " common ", talks .. )
.. I am person ; who has been; captured ; (and conquered) ; b y, " t h e art " ..
.. and i t, demands, ; that much; & advanced- W  O  R  K; abilities, -D ..

..if U let, someones " schizophrenia- l e a k; i n; U; then, U will b e angry, w i t h , hi m(her)..
..2 defeat that; " person ", ..comes neXt.. should it be the defeat of that; " social-schizophrenia " .. NO .. i t needs, a, personal-work, m a d e .. ( in every-person ) ..________________________________________________________________


Harry  " experiments that happened, i n human-behaviours  " -  -; in USA; ; (politically-socially-) are, mostly g e n e r a l-events .. ( for general statistic-science; uses..)

..in this part of the world, ( Turkey )( between EU-&Asia) w e fallow; what happens in USA ..
..  b  u  t  we; have ; an  " undefined-space and t i m e " ,other than USA. .. h e r e ..
..to MAKE; m o r e ; " specific-T H i N G s " ..
.. ( they say, " research-&development ", in most general- ..words )..

..so we can, make,  "  n e w, experiments  " ; (as individuals ,,
( ..  " USA;-L i f e  ", , is not based, on individuals,  -it is a community-social-life-mostly-)
) ; apart from carrying this ; " heavy-but-light " ;  " high-but- superficial-USA-citizenship-  " .. )
... I t is good to have USA ..(No complains..)

( U give us, most objective, statistics .. and science is defined, b y, statistics; i n ; first, glance ..) .. b u t  , U can not, understand;
and know, , all the world, from where, U  s i t ..( I mean U are a big sitter-Harry..)
.. I enjoy to watch, things, from U'r ;reflections o f,  " ordinary-american-citizen-WiNDOW " ..though ..

..and ( w e ) , are to, b e; added, to t h e s e, statistics, (&science) as w e  " enlarge " , the , " experiment "..of USA..and go on  "BUiLDiNG " ;   ...  " United-S T A T E S   " ..
...when I say  " united States " ;in my mind; ; it is; t o ; unite; " STATE S ";i n;    " religion-state-&art  " .. and to m e; i f  art has ; THAT; " UNiC-S T A T E " ; ;
,,religion and; Governments, will  f a d e, to their, " Original-b a s e s " ..
( but Today on the days of Wild-capitalism,
all religion-Government-art; has to combine, and, produce the power-of-the-TOTAL-STATE s ..as the main organism i s, USA ..)


..when come to that; " new age ,thing " ..
..w e also lived, (but not in it) here, , it all ..
.. I am not a medium ..( to pass into, other side ..)

..the  "  superficial of USA  " ; comes from the definition of;  the "large- h u m a n " ..
... " a very large-and-extended-SiZE-and-range-of ,being-H  U  M  A  N  " ; ,
..the outer-limits o f being a human ..
( if inner-limits are there, U have , elegance, refinement, smartness; e.c.t.
..U can still b e, extra Large, but, locate, multi, disciplines, o f being multi-persons ..
in arts, it has to b e, 4-Artist; in one body ..
..and that, will,, make 4 slim,personality ; and then
I will s a y; there, are, "  4-slim-human ", in me, ,instead of  " one-fat-human " ..

..art is not using , that, " W i d e -  HUMAN  "  ..
Alphabet, or any art medium, i s to make; " abstract Things " .. (but still THiNGs )
...i f ;  ABSURD ; happens, then, there are " undefined " ; that can not b e,
defined, e v e r .
I wouldn't stand, i n t h e, " ABSURD " ..
..in fact; Alphabet, i s an  "  ABSURD-THiNG  " ; that, I want to overcome by,
,, g o i n g; B E Y O N D; i  t .. ( an extra work, needed ) .
..t  h  a   t,  means, I  " ATTACT ", 2 that; ABSURD ity ..

.. and yet;   U can not make that,( NO time; NO space; where U stand )  , and try to " intellectualize-t h e m .. " ..with some " intellectual's t e X t  s .
( intellectualize; the ABSURD; o f; ALPHABET; signs.. ..only..)
( but to eliminate, this, ABSURD-infection;  -from Alphabet-
,, U have to dive into these mystic lines, -let them, conquer U'r soul-
..and  "pass-through ", that; Absolute, a r e a ..

..I am not talking about; the " souls ", i n the space.. (and channeling , them, into t h e  earth..)
I am talking about; the " SPACE ",
..   that, i s; i n; the ;   "  LiNEs; o f the ALPHABET; l e t t e r s  "  ..   -D.



___________________________________________________________________________



Harry  " experiments that happened, i n human-behaviours  " -  -; in USA; ; (politically-socially-) are, mostly g e n e r a l-events .. ( for general-statistic-science; users..)

..in this part of the world, ( Turkey )( between EU-&Asia) w e fallow; what happens in USA ..
..  b  u  t  we; have ; an  " undefined-space and t i m e " ,other than USA. .. h e r e ..
..to MAKE; m o r e ; " specific-T H i N G s " ..
.. ( they say, " research-&development ", in most general- ..words )..

..so we can, make,  "  n e w, experiments  " ; (as undipendent,individuals ,,
( ..  " USA;-L i f e  ", , is not based, on individuals,  -it is a community-social-life-mostly-)
) ; apart from carrying this ; " heavy-but-light " ;  " high-but- superficial-USA-citizenship-  " .. )
... I t is good to have USA .. -as far as U love 2 live,there- ..(No complains..)

( U give us, most objective, statistics .. and also, science is defined, b y, statistics; i n ; first, glance ..) .. b u t  , U can not, understand;
and know, , all the world, from where, U  s i t ..( I mean U are a big sitter-Harry..Accept that..)
.. I enjoy to watch, things, from U'r ;reflections o f,  " ordinary-american-citizen-WiNDOW " ..though ..

..and ( w e ) , are to, b e; added, to t h e s e, statistics, (&science) as w e  " enlarge " , the , " experiment "..of USA..and go on  "BUiLDiNG " ;   ...  " United-S T A T E S   " ..
...b u t ;  ,when I say  " united States " ;in my mind; ; it is; t o ; unite; " STATE S ";i n;    "   religion-state-&art  " .. and to m e; i f  ONLy; ,art shall produce,  ; THAT; " UNiC-S T A T E " ; ;
,,then, these,  " religion and; Governments " , will  f a d e, to their, " Original-b a s e s " ..
( but Today on the days of Wild-capitalism,
all religion-Government-art; has to b e, combined, and, produce the power-of-the-  " TOTAL-STATE s  "..as the main organism has 2 b e, the, USA-Government.. ..)


..when come to that; " new age ,thing " ..
..w e also lived, (but not in it) here, , it all ..
.. I am not a medium ..( to pass into, other side ..)

..the  "  superficial of USA  " ; comes from the definition of;  that "large- h u m a n " ..
... " a very large-and-extended-SiZE-and-range-of ,being-H  U  M  A  N  " ; ,
..the outer-limits o f being  " a human " .. ( human-2  ;Humanity-Norms..)

( if inner-limits are there, U have , elegance, refinement, smartness; e.c.t.
..U can still b e, extra Large, but, locate, multi, disciplines, o f being multi-persons ..
in arts, it has to b e, 4-other-Artist;  , in one body ..
..and that, will,, make  " 4 slim,personality "  ; and then
I will s a y; there, are, "  4-slim-human ", in me, ,instead of  " one-fat-human-total-experience " ..

..art is not (shouldn't b e) ,using , that, " W i d e -  HUMAN  "  ..
( and Humanity ..)

Alphabet, or any art medium, i s to make; " abstract Things " .. (but still THiNGs )
...i f ;   " ABSURD " ; happens, then, there are " undefined " ; that can not b e,
defined, e v e r . ( a confusion ..)
I wouldn't stand, i n t h e, " ABSURD " ..
..in fact; Alphabet, i s an  "  ABSURD-THiNG  " ; that, I want to overcome by,
,, g o i n g; B E Y O N D; i  t ..(when writing)  .. ( an extra excess ,work, needed ) .
..t  h  a   t,  means, I  " ATTACT ", 2 that; ABSURD ity ..   -o f  t h e Alphabet- ..

.. and yet;   U can not make that,Alphabet-ABSURD; eliminated ..  , and U have to  try to " intellectualize-t h e m .. " ..   with some " intellectual's t e X t  s .  ..
( intellectualizing; the ABSURD ity; o f; the-ALPHABET; signs.. ..only..)
( but to eliminate, this,  " ABSURD ity-infection  " ;  -comes from Alphabet-
,, U have to dive into these space o f,  mystic lines, of letters ..-let them, conquer U'r soul-
..and then; U c a n; b e able, 2   "pass-through ", that; Absolute, a r e a ..

..I am not talking about; the " souls ", i n the space.. (and channeling , them, into t h e  earth..)
I am talking about; the " SPACE ",
..   that, i s; i n; the ;   "  LiNEs; o f the ALPHABET; l e t t e r s  "  ..   -D.


_______________________________________________________________________






re Susanne : " After these comments by Murat I am confused about the word humanity " ..

.. " contemporary-humanity " ; has to be   ;  " dividing, into  " multi-personalities "    " ..
..i f U have NO-boundaries, between U'r ; m u l t i -personalities ( and U are free to DO; and MAKE, everything ),, then; u a r e to become, a " community-human "..

...A R T; (Like human) is ; a Total-Body ..also .. (we have 7 disciplines; 7 kind of artists ..in art field ..or body.. )..if U are an  " Total-artist " ,then  U can, DO;&Make, any thing that will be named as art ..
.. b  u   t;  i f U have " multi-artist " , personality,, (U painter, go play piano, and write and dance, ; very-day ..simultaneously..that will make U; 4 -artists, in one body ..as time goes by..)
then U will have that; opportunity; to, ,act as,  "  many other ,  artists " ,in multi mediums; b u t, in ONE-body-only .. .

..of course " contemporary-positioning " ; (4 an artist)   , shall change, the  w a y; U MAKE; these;  ,a r t   s..
..( if I am, doing 4 arts,then, my writing shall come to ,that, position; ,  -with the Alphabet ..)

(ALPHABET-Letters ; give orders, and shape-directly;  to my-Mind ..
I am to be;  i  n  these; LETTERs; first ..
,,and that is unusual, and contemporary-also ..)

...and SO; that; " writing ", style, i  s  ;  "   contemporary-an-actual-writing style ".. or a   "  contemporary-positioning-as only-oneBody--obligation  " ..)
..that i s, if U are ; One BODy; but has to b e, 4 persons,, then, U have to arrange; that body; and, t h e way, o f DO; i n g; and MAKiNG;  T H i N G s .. )

..and free-HUMAN;(HUMANity) Holders,wouldn't Like, ;  "  these-shape s " ;
... that comes from; " contemporary-multi-obligations . " to ;  " ONE-bodyonly. " ..

..and that is the ; main issue, o f that; " threat ", of Brian's ;  ,I guess.






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..I do not want to say, " I painted that " ,painting ..( and have to put my signature , under ..)
I want to say;  "  I made the w a y  ", ( the way is  put by, art-techniques, and mediums .. )
....  " 2 a THiNG " ; that could (or would) come to, our world ..
( that means , I did, not touch it; only showed the way to b e, defined by u s..)
( and it might have touched, my humanity -body- to be visible, to, the -H u m a n ..)

.." THE W A Y " ; to that THiNG; (or being), needs, " contemporary-instruments " ..Located i n human, also ..
..but art nowadays, i s trying to MAKE; these, " contemporary-instruments " ,  y  e t ..outside..
..and human could not; accomplish to " include-in ", them, y e t ..
(that is human has to convert himself/herself to that, contemporary-content, I guess, especially if an artist-pioneer ..)

_________________________________________________________________________


U do not need to be "  imaginative  " in U'r mind. ( T i t u s . )
Play a match(basketball-4eXample) ..
..and U'r  " imagination "; can b e, expressed   ,in objects ..
( that is, it may be seen, with bare eyes, if U are,   ; creative ..)
( o r; U will go on feeling U'r fingers on a keyboard; a r e, clever ..instead ..)

...I think I have a standard, : " artist has to make, sports, first " ..
... Sports, (has to end with a match) ..
,, " make-U'r HUMAN " body, " perfect ", first . ( with sports ) ..
( functioning,  and symmetric , and working,  and , genuinely-established ..i n .. )

.. t h e n , U have to b e; " creative ", l i k e, an " engineer-creates ",and produces,
..   totally; outside (mostly artists, can not express every-THiNG;2 the,  outside ..
some shall still stay, i n s i d e .. and we cry 4 someThing; 2  let them, out, t h e n ..)


..Express  with objects,,(in sports; in a match) and ,,
,, after that " engineering-expression-session " ; " art-Things ", i n U;
can b  e;(feel)  " f r e e "  ;  2    " e X p r e  s s;  themselves " ,,
after sports, in a , " art-session " ..
What U say; o n that; ,, S u s a n n e .

( I think ,U are installing that  " sex-graund " -woman- ; ,instead o f sports, that shall take place, outside .)

( s e X; is an expression made, " 2the body of- an other h u m a n "  ..
... expressions can be freely made -in sex-, but then, they are still inside, " h u m a n ity " ..
.... of course seX is unique, in  "  producing-t h e - symmetry "
,,o f  " t  h  e  "  ;human-structure .. on the, other, hand ..

..but sports has 2 take the first place,,(to make everything-outside), then to install all these;that has been " made-outside " ,will b e , converted  " 2 the i n s i d e of HUMAN " ;
( and that has to be, DONE; if art has 2 be;expressed;
...from the inside, o f Human......2 the outside..)

S  O; first, SPORTs;(and  t h e n;  ; a match =the sex phase in the sports) ..
then; to strengthen; the " unity-of-the-Total-body " of art; MAKE  s e X; with a HUMAN ..
( art's body can be; Unified; ,if human-body of artist is unified-in-sex..)

..that has to b e, the ; arranging THiNGs;  "  i n a  r  o  W   " .
( 4;  an ARTiST ..)
( and that arrangement I made above, will be named,as " contemporary " , I guess ..)
..because, before sex,and art, U have to MAKE; SPORTs; with   " actual-OBJECTs  "..
(with-ready-mades) ..

...arttist, i f only makes,  s e X; ( NO-sports, before s e X),,
..then; eXpressions; may; m e l t, in "  Human,body and, human-mind  "  ,both..I guess.

..so, we have lived, a century with, " high " sports .. (many people,  made sports, instead of going to church..-to believe in something and make, i t, real, t h e n,,-as in a match- )
..S  O; artist has to ; " produce ", that step ", o f the human-history, also ..
(that is every artist has to be making a sport, -in match-lavel- ..)

..and also last century was, " engineering ", century ..
( we all are surrounded; by engineer designs..)
..so, artist has to be an engineer, in some applications, he/she, does ..
(solve problems, within things, ;and a match is, a true; a place; 4 that) ..

S  O; a r t-design (has to) , can; jump over,   these, " engineer-designs " ..a l s o ..
..i  f  there, occurs, " some designs ",(inspirations of art's) in U;
then how come U can define, they are not,  " engineering designs  " ..
(planted in U'r brain, by engineers, produced-things-usages ..)

..to be sure, ; U have to " express ", them out;  -in an ready-made- engineering-field-   ,
..  ( and that is ; a " match ", platform; made 4 sports ) ..
.. t h e n , if there is still, " some "; inspiration " ,designs, left in U;
then; ,art-mediums, has to, " catch ", t  h  e  m  , freely ..
( a s was, i n sports   ; -for whole-t h e body- - & now, ; for the whole body-of-art ' s - ..)



Larry, has produced, some statistics, o n internet ..
..art, " made;  in human ", come s  , last ..on the list ..
..because; artists are not ahead, of the public , -in DO i n g, every-THiNG-  ,, ..
..  (sports,and engineering included .)
..that is artist, is a DO e r, (MAKER) and has to MAKE; every thing that other human are making, already ..
art has to be; BEYOND; very-MAKE; o f ,  all,-human .. (and humanity ..)

..on the other hand, Hip-Hop; and other  " cultural-group-sex  "; expressions, are
at the top..( that is,  "  human-ification   " ; in some " groups ", are continuing; in the " cowboys-country-life " ..
..t h e n; sports and engineering shall b e added, to these; " herds ", or " crew " ..
..till then; they have to be kept in " expression-of-huge-inside- to the -Mega OUTSiDE .."


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.. can I b e ;named, " link y " .. absolutely,NOT ..

..if I am; ;  then that has to be,  a big " vagina "; installed, into, ; my brain, , covers every where ..and reaches and covers,  ; " every-THiNG "  ..

..2 those, " contemporary-art-thing " producers .. :
.. " lost &faded away; vaginas "; has to; be satisfied, by, "  HUGE; ready-Made-artificial-Things  " ..
... where these; dive into our; eyes, also;(unfortunately) ; ..as they are free to fill i n the , the public, places . .. what a mass, open-garbage, with a reason ..

..the basic rule ..  "  sculpture and painting are, enemies  " .

.. and these conceptual-art-added; " contemporary-things " ; are noting more than; sculptures ..and if they a r e, "conceptual " also, t h e n;
,, they have to b e, Produced,and occurred;  i n ; some  , ; " LOST-Vaginas  ".

p.s. I am not ;Linky .. (but I have a penis; that I convert into, a " b i g Vagina " ;& installed into my , brain ..t h e n .. and that is a  " contemporary-act  " ; -not-conceptional- , but " concept-itself " .. . .  ( it can be a concept-itself; i f I produce a VAGiNA; from a P e n  is.9 )

..Linky ...L i k e; "  Human it y "  ; instead of  " H u  m a n  " ..
...if Humaity takes the place of Human, then; , there is a corruption in , h u m a n ..and if human, i s corrupted, then; ; a r t ; has to be PUT; ; i n to  " contemporary-tracks "  ..
.. to preserve, the actin of, t h e -art ..

..but that does not mean that; ,  " contemporary-tracks  " , are to b e, " big-meaningless-but conceptual-idiot-THiNG-totems " ..
..I would; prefer,  "  American-native-Indian-TOTEMs " ; o r; African; TOTEMs; instead ..
..at least, I can fear from them, and do not locate them, inside, m e .

..evening post just a few hours, to the sunset ..


_____________________________________________________________________________

Murat Oktay Danış
.. b e e eeeeeee en " O 'D A " şirketinde MODDANiS
re : " Titus, now they are peaking on me all these linki-people - you Think anyone would go for it if I put the art of Rebeckca Horn or Shirin Neshat...on my webby ??? What do u say "


..Titus, h o l d U'r T i t s .. and think ..
.. " d o e s she have " ; " anyTHiNG "; 2 put; h e r e, from her, OWN ..

..or is she a " empty-H i g h Wire " , in the air .. ..with high-VoltAGE-LOGO-on ..
( I did not see anything from, her yet, but, touches my l i n ki , that fast .. )






    Murat Oktay Danış
    .. b e e eeeeeee en " O 'D A " şirketinde MODDANiS
    .. i f U are not, to busy with these..( /// .. -D




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    Titus, U let,,  to write, " something " , h e r e ..

    ( writing a sentence is not writing ; " some T H i N g " .. )
    ..U have to, express, U'r self , and ,these,  " THiNGs " ; i n  ,   U  ..
    ..other-wise, they will , " establish " into U'r M i n d, and then, begin 2  "  L i v e , there  "..
    ( brain can balance itself, when things, move, ; & come inside  and go-outside ..)

    ..U were, a " expression-maker ", o n c e ..what happened to u.
    U completely shut U'r mouth ..
    M o u t h , has to b e; l i k e, a  , vagina ..( THiNGs-in ;Things-OUT)
    ..do not fear to wear  " that THiNG " ; onto " U'rMOUTH "; -D ..

    ..and do not chat,  with " women ", much, they will persuade U; that;
    " Vagina ",i s only their, property ..
    ( I am kidding some, also) ..-D.
    I am reflecting "  my self " ,  " in a Mirror " ..only ..



    ________________________________________________________________________


    Susanne, " sus   anne ", means, , " Shut-up  Mother " ; in Turkish ..

    ..U were very fast a runner,in the thread ;  so, that reflex, came  o u t ..

    ...because I said that " shut-up " ; ", to my mother, many-times ..
    ..(  especially when I was, trying to talk, to my; FATHER ..)
    .and she used to " cut " -talk, ( as she thought,  w e should b e, fighting, later .. )

    ... now that,  "  U have written, my name "   ..   ..I am  h e r e ..2
    ..and I think; " U'r feet are on the grand of that, thread " -D.
    ..U are a nice, and honest ,( can come very near) a person ..
    ..and that is, " something ", h e r e ..
    ..it has been; too long,  w  e  have many, that,   " talk from a distance  " ,  h  e r e .
    ..as if U touch, , a person; or a " speech " .. U may not say,   " what U a r e   " ,  t o .

    ..it was a first, that; U have taken ,what I said .. and say,
    ......"   WOOOW; i f it is "  ..
    ..that has not happened, h e r e, before ..
    ..NO BODY, touches, what I write, here..
     "  NOR; DO;  T  H  E Y, touch to themselves  "  ..

    ..that is correct .." I am WALKiNG; i n a WALL " ..when I am writing ..

    ___________________________________________________________________


    ..I could say ,that " shut-UP ", to my mother, because I was, very close, (and near 2 my mother ) ..(that is not 2 be rude, to a woman) ..
    .. instead I was thinking my father was being r u d e, 2 me, as he " put a distance ", between, US .. ( can not I be friend with my father, and , b e ,   "  in a t  e  a  m   " ,,as I am a " t e a m-player " ..  )
    H e died 10 years ago ..but we were very close, in these 20 years ..
    ..and ı learned, " all these genes, i n my body " ;( WHAT THEY MiGHT; have MADE)
    .. from, y mother and FAT h e r ..

    .. a r t ; i  n,  m e ;  " comes from the MADEs o f GENEs; " of my parents ..
    ( if I have their  genes, then; all they did, all they should DO; or MAKE; w e r e to be,
    MY-doings, also ..
    ..S  O; I  w a s with  them, (and I go see my mother every-day,also), every day ..
    ..and forced , t h e m, to   a  c  t  , in many, unexpected, situation s.
    ..I  w a s, in, many, " unexpected ", situations, i n my, L i f e ,
    and I know, HOW; MY parents, should act, i n these , position s..

    ..and so I Think, artist, has to add, "  all-thees-MAKEs " ; o f   " his "  ; " GANEs ",,
    e s p e c i a l l y, " READY-M  A  D  E ' s " of ;  his/her; PARENTs ..
    ..  a  r  t   is a Wide-river, and ;
    " NO-MAKEs " ; would b   e,  missed; (wasted) i n that;  " WiDE ; r i v e r "  ..of  a r  t   s.
    ...  i    n,  "  h  u  m  a  n  ity .. "

    " O N C E ; A  DANCE; i  n  t h e WALL .. " ..
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42I2DuAGrWY


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    Susanne can not get that; I am flirting with her,   ; " WOOOWmen-2-WO,MEN " ..

    .. I know many woman, sleeping at my DOOR; i f I could teach them, " WHAT i s a vagina " ; (in a Brain) ,and, how it has to be installed,   "  i n2, a  BODy  "  ..
    ( that is a lie.. they even do not  come near m e,
    ....because, they see, that  "I can see " ;  " how wrong " , they u s e ;
    their, V  a  g  i  n a  s .. i n my deep-e y e s ..
    ( I can read, a woman, when I look at her, for 5 seconds ..
    ..on how, s he ,  u s e s ,  " that Thing " ..   )
    ( and where has she   located i t, i n her body ..for instance ..)

    ..it seems that, many woman, are unlucky because, their vaginas,
    are located, i n , their, BODy-contuniously ..,,but not  " t r u e ly " ; into their, Brains .. ..
    ..i t is because; they have 2 work, that THiNG; with, " somebody " ,  " e l s e' penis-thing "  ..
    ..  b  u   t ; I can WORK-V a g i n a ; ,all by my self ..
    ( reversing my penis, i n my ; M i n d ..)
    ( and watching;  how those,  " k i n d women " , a c t .. in   " beauty "..
    I wouldn't say that  " they are beautiful  " .. )

    ..and sometimes, it is a disadvantage ; to have the " THiNG " ..  -located in U'r BODy- ..
    (the wrong use, can, e a i s l y ,  destroy, all   " U'r p u r e , work " ,o n establishing,  " that THiNg " ,correctly  i n2 , U'r brain ..
    and if ; U are 2 -WORK; with, U'r Brain ..) )

    ..I LOVE;  "  contemporary  " , ,.. ( especially , when I look at;  " these-WOMAN-desperate " .)
    ...because, i  t, give s me the chance; ; (2 my WORK), , to establish, " A THiNG " ;
    all  "  M   A   D  E "  ,   b  y,  m  e .. ( all conceptual-a-work; all in my -brain) ..
    ..and it functions, m o r e, than,  t h e ;  " REAL-THiNG " , holders .. c a n, magine- o f.

    .. " eXternal- E Q U i P ments  "; (of the contemporary) are more USEFUL;
    than the; " ALL-in-ONE-BODie s " ..
    ..( if I am to; have a better " SOUND-CARD ", then ; I shouldn't have a
    " ALL-in -ONE-B o d y ,  a  Computer ..-D.

    ., all these ABOVE;  can b e, said, for a man,also ..
    ( with a ALL-in-ONE-BOdy-PENiS, , )   too  ..

    ..so I can say, my  " PEN  " ; functions , j u s t ; l i k e ; P e n  i  s ..(I am kidding)
    ..i f this is true, my   " PEN Holding HAND "  ; has to b e ; " MY -BASiC-VAGiNA "  ..
    ...and I can, SURELy;  s a y , that; ; MY-HAND; i s my;    " EXTERNAL; Vagina  "  ..
    ..and I DO; MAKE; multi-Things ,with my hands ..
    (basketball, Piano, writing, Painting with a spatula ,, e c t .)

    ..and; MY-deeds, (and MY HAND)  /(MADE; by my multi-HAND-in-my DO i n g s )
    a  r  e ; installed, i n t o;  my;  BRAiN ,,, a s an ;  "     inner-HAND-of-Vagina  "  .
    ..V a g i n a; here, is a HOLDER; or a CATCHER ..
    ( I am not demanding that God-MADE; "  piece-of-meat "  ..for my art DO i n g s ..- D. )


    ..S  O, , Susanne; ; I have ONE;   ,   External; (MY HAND) ,
    ....   " ONE-inner-Genuinely-all-in -ONE-BODy, made of DEEDs;  ; in MY Brain "
    .. 2 ;   " V i g i n a s , in OPERATiON  " ..

    D  O;  U Think, t h e n .. I need to (have 2) , run after a ; " woman-vagina " ,
     "  that  flirtatious , T H i n g   " ..
    ..if I am 2 run after a THiNG; then, i t is a " ball ", in a " match " .. (in sports )

    ..i f a Woman,  gives it 2 me, free, I would say;
    " I HAVE; some regulations ", for, " WAGiNA; U S E " ..in my,  "  MENUAL-BOOK   ".. ..
    ( because, I have a, Vagina, MADE; i n 2 steable-and -contunious-STATEs; and positions ,, ; -that has to WORK; ,"  TRUELy "-    ;  for   t  h  e ;     ; ART-PROCCESS e s. of   ;M i n e ..)

    ..then WE come to that; conclusion : WOMAN; are " hopeless " ; creatures ,,
    as they , depend, on that, ; " created-   -ALL-in-ONE-BODy-Vagina " ..
    i  f  they are;    ; NOT; L U C k  y .

    ( if they are LUCy; they meet a man, that, Works, V a g i n a, more than , a girl ..
    and cares for it, MORE; than, a n y ,  W O M E N ..)

    ..but w e come 2 that, basic; conclusion, at last ..
    " CONTEMPORARY-is-M O R E- U  S  E f u l  " , than, " GOD's created " ..



    _________________________________________________________________________


    ..thank U William..(4 the compliment ..)
    .. I think, " keyboard ", i s controlling, m y-fingers, then " alphabet ", i s ; L e a k i n g, in, my , B r a i n .. ( and what happens, a r e, all by the M E A N s; o f the ALPHABET-traditiON " ..then) ..

    ... when U DO; not   "  KNOW  "  ;
     ( and NO; one can sit and play piano, if not; learned-it .)
    .....    that; " PiaNO ",   -PLAY i n g- ,, t h e n,  ; P i a NO; and;  " SOUNDs ",also,  will begin, to;(leak) ,  " WALK-inthrough   " in the Body-of-Human.  .. if U insist to, touch that, Piano ..

    ..what ; I am trying to say;  i  s ; :
    . L  E  T;  THiNGs; pass, in through U; (4 art can happen that way, more healthy; & contemporarily .. ) ...
    ..i  f ;  l i f e ; ( given by GOD; ) ,,  s  u  c  k s .. ( unfortunetely ..)




    _____________________________________________________________________________



    ..I am not; "  D O, ing any-thing  " .. (although I am a human, also)
    "ALPHABET-d o e s " ..O N; - u s ..
    ( and that is a " contemporary-USE A G E " ..that ALPHABET-does-2-me-even .. )

    .. w e are, arguing on , "  humanity and-contemporary " ..
    ..and I am a h u m a n, also, ; under the , WALK; o f , that; ALPhabet-also ..
    ..b u t, I am stepping back, i f U say; SO .. ( as U might know, something ) ..-D .

    ..also, T i t u s , has; came , back  2 the .., gates, of the; Alphabet; a s; ///7;.,-P .e.c.t.
    ..I will not be here, - 4 a while - ..


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    .." MY-ALPHABETH-U S E "; (it is contemporary i f it WALKs, o n me..)
    ( My keyboard-WALKiNG; i n through- m e ..   )
    ;  will not BE;  H e r e,
     -4 a WHiLE-; William .



    _________________________________________________________________________________

    William VanDorin
    William VanDorin
    Owner at Loud Silence Studio
    LOL! Murat put down the pipe, and step away... I have never seen anyone that challenged by a key board! LOL!!

    _______________________________________________________________________________



    " 4 -A-While "; i s ;  " a Day ", to , m e ..so I can , speak ..
    ( Where (if)  ;  " 4 Winds " ; can W i n d;  " 2 my-F a c e "  .. in a Day ..simultaneously .. )

    Suz anne, ı was, not asking U anything.. ı was expressing " myself ", only ..
    ( as I write, I focus, on m y Brain, and my-self, only ..not "  anyBODY-outside " ..other than me ..).. ( so that does, not MAKE; U ;  " my-Object " ..do not be, in panic..)

    ..I have 2 continue, the " psychological-events " , happening in my, BRAin ..
    .( .as I give my Brain's T i m e ; to these writings, also ..)

    ( because I believe , an artist has to b e, a " Living-Psychologic-Creature " ..
    ..and I have to be , i n my; " Psychological-Tracks "  ;also when I am, writing ..
    ..as  " I look at U'r acts happen here  "; -and learn-them- ; They become  " a part , of my BRAiN " ; 
    ,, and  e v e n , that; is; not; " U ",  it is,  " -some-THiNG, in my Brain-  " ..
    ..that I will b e; thinking, o  f . w i t h .

    p.s. 
    why my writing is, ,complicated ..
    ..because, process,
     i n m y M i n d, happens, ,(occurs) compleX ..
    ( Mind itself, has  a complex; behavior ..and many dimensions and 'bases, , happen, &occur;  there ..)
    ( and I w a n t ; 2 ; RiDE; these, ; dimensions;  and, BASEs of t h e , Mind.. when writing ..
    I should have to b e,  " RiDing-MY-Psychology " , any-time, o f my ; L i f e ..also ..
    /( because,   " THiNGs of art " , WALK-dawn,o n that road(my brain),,spontaneously, as I freely,(untouched) , e X p r e s s,  t h e m;  out ..
    I have to OWN my psychology; any moment ,than; they(artThings) will stay;untouched by ,m e.  ,, a  l  s   o.. )

    ..and I serve U;  ; " m y; original-mind-moves-&actions " .. (isn't that a honest thing .. I do .)
    ( I could write them; in my computer and, then,  " write ,simple-results; h e r e " ..
    ..( and many-Minds should, argue for, WHAT; that r e a l l y,   w e r e ..)
    ( ONE-ORiGiNAL; M i n d -WORK; ,is b e t t e r ; than; MULTİ-Minds;
    trying to MAKE that;  " original-Mind- -J O B " .. )
    (..if there are, " repeats here,in the writing,
    then they, in the Minds, nature, too..)


    (AND; ARTiST; i s the one; that can RiDE; o n his/her; M i n d ..alone ..
    ..art is a  " ONE-MAN; show " , , with "  one-Mind ; i n the, WORK  " o f the genuine ..)

    .. " my mission order " ,in writing, has been given by; an English-man ..Mr.John Lennon ..(in 1973..)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnM66YKHYec


    U do not; have to understand, totally, in one read, or answer, them ..immediately ..
    ..these m a t e r i a l,  ; will, wait, h e r e ..
    ..and if U could read  "  a part  "; then; , -this is " the place " where, U'r Mind, stands;also ..-..
    I can not; demand more, than, that ..-it is O.K. what ,U can r e a d ..with U'r own,-Mind ..
    ( and where U'r mind, stands, for the , Time-being ..)
    ...(  " difficult-writing  ",  itself wouldn't  let U ; read what is not in ;U'r mind ,also ..
    to defend U from; t h e " NAKED-Mind-issue " .)

    ..and "  U " ;  -U'r Mind has to stand, where it is - 
    ,, can " join ", "  my M i n d-in-action ", from that; point; of U'r s..  
    (and that, will care for my,  expressing-my-mind-freedom, 
    -and, of course; U'rs, standing where it is,  also- .
    b  u  t ; " DO; NOT; force; U'r self, to understand, all that; W r i t t e n .. ,
    ( because it should be an afford to UNDERstand;   "  all, t  h  e  ; " M i n d " ..

    I write these; writings in one hour, t i m e ..
    ..that means, I give my Mind; -1 hour-, to understand how, my  " MiND-writing-acts " ..
    S  O; how can U; r e a d , that writing of the Mind; , in minutes ..
    D  O;  not; push , U'r M i n d ..that fast .. ( I can say ..)
    .." g i v e much time " 2 the WRiTiNG-of-the-Mind "  ..o  r ;   -DO; not read, i t completely-..
    ..these I the reading rules, o f mine, ( when I am reading, some Thing )
    M i n d, is an important-organ ..and it shouldn't have to be forced,
    like some-vaginas, has been, put under, pressure .  -for some -time-

    or; DO; not PUT; U'r self under the pressure, ; that; U have to ; " answer; m e " ..
    ( it is a habit, o f modern &contemporary life .. " read to answer "  ..
    it has to b e;  " read 2 understand it ,first ..)
    ..then a second Thing, as a JOB;  " Answer-it) " ..(as if that's an ORDER ..)

    M Y; WAY; o f; being a participant; h e r e ,  i  s ,
     " I ;  -and-  ;MY Brain; are; expressing, "  Thinking-itself  ",  " THAT-WAY  " ; i f ; 
     " U ; can,J o i n " , i  n  ..
    ..or, say;  ,U do not think; s o ..and what DO; U offer ..
    ..if there is no idea, then, begins ;
    " U a r e, that thing, w h y " ; kind of, conversation s.

    .. " every-thing "  has to b e,; " n e w -offers " 
    W  E; shouldn't b e Lost, i n " translation " ..
    ( or lost in other-bodies..)


    ..if I write, " Susanne " ;, that might b e; U; , but if it is not U ; then; I write; for example ( S u s a n n e ) .. -so that s u s a n n e ; is an other, thing; that I have installed, in my; T h i n k i n g ..y e t, ..

    S  O; D O; not ; TAKE;  m e , seriOUS. ly. 
    I always, talk 2 myself ..( I am insane, 2 myself ..and the  " THiNKing has 2 b e " , a " THiNG ,2me.  ( and there is an other  " BETH " ; "  in ALPHA B E T H "  , when I write; Alphabet; as;   " ALPHA-BETH "   ..that I 'v e been ,TALKing, 2 .

    ps.when, I destroy; WORDs; a s I write, them, in multi-pieces ; I am ; trying to; swim in my; -Turkish-Language- , too ..I have to, do that; because, I think in Turkish-mostly ..and that includes;in ,; my " punctuation-pallet " ; and I do not look after ,if  U have to understand even these,  ;William . 
    ..that would b e; unfair ..also .

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    William VanDorin
    Owner at Loud Silence Studio

    Interesting this is the second artist I have encountered using a verbal and punctuation pallet to convey abstractions. I do get it, and appreciate the bold diversion from convention. Unfortunately, to do this with any degree of success is going to require a staggering intellect, coupled with profound insights into communication. I suspect that anything short of this will be regarded as disconnected rambling by the public... SuB -+ jective,,. Snaill TOOth ne klace gLimmering n MuRky mad ness darkly... Evidently, far beyond my scope of ability! LOL

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    ..to shorten, what did I say above..  " if I am writing ; " MY MiND "..
    .., then, I am in my; M i n d .

    ..William, U are a " talking-openly- person " ..U can say, what U think, and how, U think,also.. ..for the time-being .." that is someThing-MAN .. " , and U actual, standing i n, there ..

    ..When come to that; " emptiness " ,..
    .. that could, occur, between, people, and my, writing ..
    ..Y  e  s, there i s, that; " vacuum " , between m e  and my writing also. -between me and my Mind- ..and that vacuum sucks m e, in also ..and I have have m u l t i-body-deeds, not to be w a s t e d , i n that,  d a r k-ly-madness-h o l e of that " black-body-mass "..
    ( if I have multi, body, then, some sides ; o f my body,  can still be outside, as suck process -is, happening, ..)

    ..the Thing; i s .. sometimes; I am also,  ; " tied with a tin rope " , ,to  " Written-things-of Alphabet -letter-signs " ; b  u  t  , that i  s; 
    "  WHAT THEY;(Alphabet-letters) , ; a r e , " A C T U A L L Y "   " ..

    ,, i f w e are , 2 write with these Alphabet-letters, then they really has to be, " these tiny-ropes ", (ACTUAL-THiNGs 2 that, U S E ;  o f  the ; M i n d..  I guess ..) ; in the ; M i n d-space..
    ..and that " meaningless-absolute-vacuum " ; i s to; produce, -help that happen- , 

    ..never-mind-; I say; 2 myself .. ..that  " deep-h o l e " ; has to, b e dived (as is a mine,though..) i n, and, may be I will be , b e ;  taken out ,  " by someone " ,, o u t-of that; WELL; (or Mind-mine), alive ..
    ..if something, valuable, shall b e, reached ..i  n . i n , T i m e .
    S o m e one has to DRAW; M i N D; itself..
    ..and that can b e ; MADE; by; these " alphabet-letter ", and in their, " contemporarily-u s e " , I guess.
    ..that contemporarisation , i s, 2 happen, i f I w r i t e,  a s,  so ..
    I  ; " hammer ", these nails(letters) i n to my; M i n d , as I u s e, that; " punctuation-J o B " ..
    ..to " rope " my; M i n d; to my   "  body-out-side  "  ..

    _.. Susanne, I think; U have a "  honest, Mind " ; (and a free flowing-one)(with free-expressions ) so ; I offer, U shall stand, with  the, place , where, Brian used 2 stand ..in that, thread .. ( 2 me, that, is, ,SO ) .. ..U are good with that; " free expression-thread ".. ( I realized .)
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